OT: Crossover dampening options

[bowtie427ss]

My issue is I think there is not just one way to do things.

I share the same issue in a fairly broad sense.

My emphasis is that in most cases we're talking about what amounts to extremely diminishing returns. To probably 95% of audio enthusiasts or more, the nits we're picking, and words we're mincing here are beyond the extent of their interest and/or their listening preferences, room, upstream gear, and source ability to resolve.

We all travel our own unique path in audio with no two being exactly the same, though many of us will meet at multiple crossroads.

I have bracket racing in my blood. I know first hand the difference things like a 1/4PSI in a tire can make, or indexing spark plugs so that the outside electrode is in the most ideal position, or 10 degrees difference in fuel temperature, 10% change in relative humidity. When everything else is in perfect state, all of these variations show up in the ET. These minimal variances have no significant impact outside of 1320 and an ET clock. But, in that realm they can make the difference between a winner and a loser.

Some times my listening space is a drag strip, and i want the best performance i can acheive with what i have................................

[Elitopus1]

Tom I respect your opinion, and I know what you are saying about only 5% of audio freaks (I try to avoid audiophile) would appreciate the little tweaks and tricks.

I also know that Mil spec wire is a gazillion times cheaper than the fancy audiophile cables. In fact I get Mil spec scraps free from work. Its a great bargain in the audio world

I know there is a difference between the hypothetical best case scenerio and what everyone is actually doing. I am more curious what people are actually doing in there own systems. Then sometimes I try it and see if it works for me too

[Petro]

I've personally been a little nutty with cables in the past. I finally started purchasing less expensive cables and testing them against my cables( audioquest, transparent, acoustic Zen)and realized they(like anything else) are a preference more than one being better than the other. I settled on a nice little company out of Colorado called Avanti audio. His allegro cables are really good and are a fraction of the other cables I've mentioned.
I've never tried the so called "lamp cord" so I don't know the difference. I just always figured high current amp, high current wires. And I'm believer in good power cords as well.
My good friend who also has model 15's added vintage WE cloth covered wire I believe it was 16awg. And sold his very expensive Audience cables, saying he wasn't missing anything from the switch.
My question is does it matter what's running from your amp to binding posts if your speakers and xovers are wired with regular wire?
Figure this is a good thread to ask this since I've wondered what I should be wiring my next xovers with

[bowtie427ss]

In my own space, i try everything i can get my hands on for speaker cables with the exception of aluminum and old coat hangers, and the uber expensive offerings(given access i'd try those too). It's a polarizing topic, and invites a lot of subjectivity

For portable/working apps, i'd probably go with the industry standard Belden 5000 or 8000 series. There are reasons beyond audio for this.

Equally important is wire termination. The best wire in the world won't matter if it's not terminated properly.

[Phil-G]

It's a shame that we don't all live just across town from one another. Many facets of audio we can wax poetic about, and share novel length threads about. But, the true reality of subtle details is all in the first hand experience.

here here, show me don't tell me.
so much time and material it takes get it right.

[westend9]

I found this series of articles by Roger Russel to be fairly scientific and informative about speaker wiring: Speaker Wire

To me, experimentation is key (along with personal anecdotal information by local gear heads I trust). One experiment I had was to use long lengths of Cat5e to enable my Altecs to be positioned outside at a gathering. I found the Cat5e to afford a good sound and is about as cheap as can be found for speaker wire. I have also experimented with different wire and cable types when building gear. The elimination of crosstalk or spurious interference is the goal in that endeavor, rather than a wire that will carry a signal fully to a speaker.

[LowOhms]

I've personally been a little nutty with cables in the past. I finally started purchasing less expensive cables and testing them against my cables( audioquest, transparent, acoustic Zen)and realized they(like anything else) are a preference more than one being better than the other. I settled on a nice little company out of Colorado called Avanti audio. His allegro cables are really good and are a fraction of the other cables I've mentioned.
I've never tried the so called "lamp cord" so I don't know the difference. I just always figured high current amp, high current wires. And I'm believer in good power cords as well.
My good friend who also has model 15's added vintage WE cloth covered wire I believe it was 16awg. And sold his very expensive Audience cables, saying he wasn't missing anything from the switch.
My question is does it matter what's running from your amp to binding posts if your speakers and xovers are wired with regular wire?
Figure this is a good thread to ask this since I've wondered what I should be wiring my next xovers with

Hi Petro.

To answer your question, at the end of your posting :

Of course you have to re-wire the speaker internally. That is the very first thing I would do to an ALTEC VOTT, etc.

In another thread, I have outlined precisely ( wire type, amounts to each driver polarity, lengths ) all that you need to do, to get the ALTEC speaker to perform really really well. All the press-to-fit connectors, on the woofer and tweeter drivers, need to be eliminated / bypassed, as I explained, and the wires ( crossover to speaker /drivers ) need to be soldered directly to the terminals. Use good solder, Wonder Solder, Ersin MultiCore 60-40, in a ventilated area, with a fan going.

WAY friggin ' nicer to hear.

I also like to build my own DIY crossover, as the stock film caps sorely need to be upgraded , and the stock crossover coils / inductors are high in DCR,. The stock crossover's wiring is another high-loss area of the design. We are moving from commercial movie theater, to high-end audio performance here.. maybe even the highest-end audio, if you have the right amps. The ALTEC drivers are true gems. In all likely hood, the worlds best three driver brands, are ALTEC JBL and early Klangfilm.


Re-read and consider implementing what I posted, its all here in an earlier thread.

Jeff Medwin

[Elitopus1]

I've personally been a little nutty with cables in the past. I finally started purchasing less expensive cables and testing them against my cables( audioquest, transparent, acoustic Zen)and realized they(like anything else) are a preference more than one being better than the other. I settled on a nice little company out of Colorado called Avanti audio. His allegro cables are really good and are a fraction of the other cables I've mentioned.
I've never tried the so called "lamp cord" so I don't know the difference. I just always figured high current amp, high current wires. And I'm believer in good power cords as well.
My good friend who also has model 15's added vintage WE cloth covered wire I believe it was 16awg. And sold his very expensive Audience cables, saying he wasn't missing anything from the switch.
My question is does it matter what's running from your amp to binding posts if your speakers and xovers are wired with regular wire?
Figure this is a good thread to ask this since I've wondered what I should be wiring my next xovers with

I think its cool that you found some cables you like that are also a good price. Its also great to support smaller companies.

I run the same type of wire from the amp to speakers, on the xovers, and inside the speakers. That way its all the same and there is no bottleneck anywhere

[LowOhms]

16 AWG speaker cables ( amp to crossover ) are certainly not adequate AWG-wise, to run an ALTEC properly. Too much loss. 16 AWG is a joke, a bad one.

Minimum AWG speaker-to-crossover cable, for shorter runs, should be double 12 AWG M22759/11 12 ( equals 9 AWG ). For runs 23.8 feet or longer, triple 12 AWG is needed ( about 7.5 AWG ). The shorter runs sound slightly better.

Best bang for the dollar is M22759/11 12, copper stranded, silver coated, teflon jacketed, made beautifully for the military, and cut it to 57 1/8th inch multiples. Apex Jr ( Steve) or eBay with thought , are easy sources.

The woofers, from the crossover, need doubled-up 12 AWG M22759/11 Mil Spec wire to each polarity ( equals 9 AWG ), 57 1/8th inch long , The ALTEC tweeter, 802, etc, from the crossover to the driver, is best using 14 AWG 57 1/8th inch runs, M22759/11 14.

Again, remember to eliminate all the stock ALTEC press-to-fit terminals, on the 15 inch and 802, etc, and solder crossover wires directly to the driver, carefully, professionally. Wonder Solder and a Weller 650 ( or 550 ) Soldering Gun is your friend when doing this work. Attach a strain relief, a P CLIP, intelligently to each speaker lead, at the driver's frame, or body, so no damage will occur if the wire ( no , when the wire ) gets inadvertently tugged in the future.

Now you have the wiring taken care of!!

All of this information was given to me ( and I follow it ) by a person who spent his life in the Movie Theater business, as an owner and designer, and who has personally owned $18.000 a pair speaker cables, for his GPA 604 MLTLs. He has spent $10,000 to rewire internally his JBLs with Ensemble wire He truly knows what end is up.


Have fun.

Low Ohms Jeff

[Phil-G]

If I spend 18,000 on something, it will be something speakers go in